Evolution vs. Creation

[The Graceful Assassin]

And that's precisely what every believer should ponder. And, truthfully, we don't have an answer, at least not straight out. You can't say because "he has a bigger plan for us and this is a part of it" or "God hates us and is not a loving God". We just don't know and that is where faith comes in

[Terminal Est]

Then you should understand exactly why it is hard to consider such a god when trusting yourself solely to The Bible.

The whole thing is much too straightforward, with too much room for questions. I find it hard to conceive.

As for faith, I have my own ideas of what it is, and so, any theories of there being a god does not reflect what we know of Him altogether.

But on the other hand, I may think I know what faith is on a social scale, but it is possible I have never been under its light, so therefore may only believe what I see.

Adam and Eve did not exist. Christians know that it is just a story now. There were first humans, but not in the way of the story of Adam and Eve

Regardless of such, it seems many people, as proven on this very site, still take to the belief that they were real.

For, no one may prove that they were, but no one may prove that they were not, either.

And even if Jesus was a "fraud", it still doesn't change much for me. I dmire the man's message, which I at least know were truthfully there, not his actions.

Weather the messages we know he gave were of his own, or given to us by humanity through the ages, I can do naught but agree.

What I have heard and believed is that we become a higher level of existence that is beyond human comprehension. That just plain terrifies me.

Indeed, because I take it, you wish to remain what you are now.

Many things concerning heaven make no sense to me.

If a child dies and goes to Heaven, will he or she grow up there? If a heroine addict dies and goes to heaven, will he still have drug problems?
I cannot foresee there being anything other then what I am, and a higher state of existence does not interest me, although it is the only thing that would make any sense towards such a subject. For me, at least.

Besides, it would be too ironic if youu could do what you want. That would mean you could do evil things, which isn't fair and doesn't add up

So as we are sheep on Earth, we shall remain so in Heaven. Ah, no thanks, I think I shall take my chances with the Devil.
*Packs her pitchfork.*

Well, all kidding aside, believer or not, we are all slaves to something, I believe…

But you spoke of evil...regarding good and evil on earth and how we define such things, it could not exist in heaven, could it?

Regardless of one's definition of such alignments, they are human, which would render us such once in the afterlife...

[khil1]

Because, Cain and Lilith were actually the first humans created by God, and not Adam and Eve.

I believe that you must have read this in a different bible then what I have read, for there are in fact bibles in which people have added more books that are less relible. The Catholic bible has books which the Chirstian Bible does not.

If God does not want us to give into sin, then He should have created us otherwise.

You see, He did create us without sin but God gave us a choice, to obey what He said or not, and we chose the latter. Even though we did not do as God asked, God still loved us enough to send His only Son down to earth, to pay the price of sin. God told us that the wages of sin is death, and God's Son, Jesus, came and lived a life without sin. Jesus payed the price of all of humanity's sins by dieing for them; three days after He died, Jesus rose from the grave.

[Terminal Est]

I believe that you must have read this in a different bible then what I have read, for there are in fact bibles in which people have added more books that are less relible. The Catholic bible has books which the Chirstian Bible does not.

Well, my family is Catholic, although honestly,...

What you say has me dumbfounded. One Bible, one book or another...do you not all serve and love the same god? And who is to say who's book is right?

No matter how much one believer can explain, no matter how wise and intelligent he may be, his book will be the right one, while another believer from a different Christian orientation will say the same of his.

Well, you must indeed have a point. But it is as I say...

You are a believer, and let us say I am one as well. You believe Adam and Eve were the first humans, and I believe the same of Cain and Lilith.

Can anyone not see how obscene this would be?

..I mean, sure, I can understand a believer and a non believer not agreeing on much, but two believers doing the same? There would be no way to prove one sort of belief wrong if you cannot prove yours to be right.

Well, this is not to offend anyone, and I suppose in the end, it is irrelevant.

But these kinds of things are what convinces me that religion is human, and human alone..

You see, He did create us without sin but God gave us a choice, to obey what He said or not, and we chose the latter.

Well, if it is so, how were all the people who might have presumably went to Hell before Jesus came know that? Especially if it is within human nature to partake in sin.

God still loved us enough to send His only Son down to earth, to pay the price of sin.

If God is so omnipotent, then why did He have to sacrifice His son?
Well, if the story is as is, then it was not truly a sacrifice if Jesus came back.

Or were we to learn something of this? Has mankind learned anything from what was done to Jesus?

I realize no one may truly have the answers to such questions, but it is not a sin to wonder why the apostles of God and or Jesus could not have been more clear about any of this...

[khil1]

Well, if it is so, how were all the people who might have presumably went to Hell before Jesus came know that? Especially if it is within human nature to partake in sin.

I wish I could answer that but I cannot for like I said, I am not the best person ask, I what little I know and grasp many things but without the ability to explain them very well.

f God is so omnipotent, then why did He have to sacrifice His son?

The best way I can explain this, is from an example my friend gave me.

God put himself in a box when he created our universe, in the box He forces Himself to follow the rules He has set in place.

Now that is a very watered down version of the example but it works for this topic.

Well, if the story is as is, then it was not truly a sacrifice if Jesus came back.

No, Jesus died, He paid the price for sin. It is the fact that He came back to life that allows us to go to heaven if we follow Him.

[Oblivion]

It was a sacrifice! Jesus still had to go through all that pain and tourcher. God sent Jesus to also show us His love. He sent His only begotten son so that whosoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Take your chances with the Devil? In hell there is only seperation and pain. You will be in complete darkness. You are being desieved as Ansem was, if I shall use the comparison.

The reason why we know so little is because sin seperates up from God. If Adam and Eve did not sin, then we would all be believers and know more. But we don't. So God wants us to trust the unseen. It makes the bond stronger. I got more where that came from, too.

[Terminal Est]

I wish I could answer that but I cannot for like I said, I am not the best person ask, I what little I know and grasp many things but without the ability to explain them very well.

I understand this of course, but would not The Bible explain this, or does it litteraly say that everyone went to Hell before Jesus?

Now that is a very watered down version of the example but it works for this topic.

Rather a humble god, that.

But I wonder where people do get these bits of..philosophy, or information if you will.
If they just make it up, how can anyone be convinced?

It was a sacrifice! Jesus still had to go through all that pain and tourcher.

Well, as I understand it, Jesus was like Superman. He could have easily pointed to anyone and die they would.
So who knows if the pain He felt would have been to the equivalent of a normal mortal's physical take upon the sensation?

He sent His only begotten son so that whosoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Only those who believe? If I am a lost sheep, would not God wish to find me if He loves me so much?

There are different variations of God and what sort of god He may be like, I can see.

Take your chances with the Devil? In hell there is only seperation and pain. You will be in complete darkness. You are being desieved as Ansem was, if I shall use the comparison.

Funny hoe deceit on behalf of Satan feels so different then when a normal person deceives me. Well. He is Satan, after all.

Well...these thoughts I have upon the subject are clear to me, my views and opinions are clear to me, as are my beliefs and goals.

If deceit is a clear perception of oneself and one's surroundings, I fear what faith must be like.

The reason why we know so little is because sin seperates up from God. If Adam and Eve did not sin, then we would all be believers and know more. But we don't. So God wants us to trust the unseen. It makes the bond stronger. I got more where that came from, too.

I have heard that before, from a great friend of mine.

But...I cannot abide by the suggestion that the state of humanity be blamed on two people who ate an apple they were not meant to touch because a snake told them to.

Why should we suffer because of them?

I can understand, to an extent, what you say of forging a bond, but what has it to do with putting your trust in what you cannot see?

[Oblivion]

The Bible might not explain this because we do not need to know everything. If we did, then life would not have as much meaning. I've heard that the most interesting place is beyond a closed door. But, once that door is opened, it is not as interesting.

That's the point! He knew he was going to die and that he didn't have to! He chose to show his love to us by giving us the most important thing he had, his life.

His is looking for all the lost sheep. Why do you think you are being exposed to such knowledge on this thread olone. Christiany knowledge that is. You know you can be saved but youd rather "take my chances with the Devil".There is no variations, only diferent personalities.


It makes the trust stronger.

[Terminal Est]

If we did, then life would not have as much meaning. I've heard that the most interesting place is beyond a closed door. But, once that door is opened, it is not as interesting.

If we remain the same after death, then should not such a statement be applied to Heaven as well?
Unless Heaven grants us a different state of existence, the whole concept, based on human nature and the logic by which we abide can make no sense to me..

You know you can be saved but youd rather "take my chances with the Devil".There is no variations, only diferent personalities.

Well, you must realize, as I am sure you have, that I am not a believer.

The reason I said that was mostly to emphasize the point that we humans have given God, through our actions within history, a vile and cruel image.

But, if I were to truly believe, I would most likely retain the same fear of Good I sometimes feel, and would have never even thought that, let alone type it for people to see.

Hum..is that not one of the points of religion?

[Oblivion]

Heavan is like nothing you could ever imagine.

There's a saying that goes, "You can have life after death or death after life." Give me your take at what it means.

Now, if you want to debate evolution, I'll debate evolution. I have evidence that proves creation right. I'll give it to you if you like.