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Old 06-08-2007, 09:18 PM
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Default Winding Up and Winding Down

Does anybody feel like everything seems to be headed for oblivion? Everyday you here about violence, war, the effects of global warming getting worse, ozone depletion, shortages of oil, fish going extinct and other depressing matters. Sometimes it feels like the world is getting worse and worse with each generation. Dont you feel like its all winding down? Dont you feel like we're set up for destruction?
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Old 06-08-2007, 11:02 PM
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In the end, that's a fine way to put it.

Humans are probably the most dangerous creatures alive. Not because we're, as far as we know, the most inteliggient species on earth, but because we are willing to kill and destroy in order to survive.

We destroy this planet because we have been lazy to finding solutions to our problem. When everyone should be trying to find a way to help ourselves and preserve the earth, we are only capable of trying to kill the other. Simply because we want to find oil and other resources that we shouldn't even be using (alternative energy sources).

The term 'survival of the fittest' should not be taken lightly, as it applies to how humanity was like before we built a civilized (if you can say that) society.
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Old 06-09-2007, 12:49 AM
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I am cruel and heartless
the destruction of the earth will be in like 100 years and I don't think I will live 2 see that day so....
It is no longer my problem
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Old 06-09-2007, 08:45 AM
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The term 'survival of the fittest' should not be taken lightly, as it applies to how humanity was like before we built a civilized (if you can say that) society.

And this term, in my opinion, is our pedestal to definition. Not only was such used before ''civilized'' times, but it is still in function within the results of society as we know it.

We live a cycle of cruelty, and much like in the animal kingdom, our goals are set for this only. We live to die. Emotions, ethics, manners, morality or the results of conscious thought are naught but what fuels our cycle. (I would be pleased to list some examples, if someone does not understand what I mean by this. )

About the inevitable ''end'', all cycles must end. Most philosophy deals with that absolute idea, even the spiritual ones which suggest an afterlife, so to speak. Obviously, they are based on that very idea, Hence, another great aspect of our cruel behavior if you should ask me, although I believe this sidetracks the point, does it not?

Humans have not been degenerating in the past generations, as suggested by Zotar. I do not believe so.

The countless wars which we have waged have given birth to the Inquisition, the Witch Hunts, the Holocaust, or the scientific experiments lead during the Second World War in japan and Germany. All are examples of our interior savage which never flinches, despite how our history changes, or the comparisons we can make between olden days and modern times.

I am getting to the point here. This is about the destruction of the Earth. Bare with me.

Some different ethnic cultures and their people have suffered, and died out, such as the Indians, or the Aztecs and Mayas. I believe, as crude and as racist as this may sound, that the mentality and primitive nature of these people were much too set, and therefore such was not willing to adapt to human evolution. An evolution which caters to our ''growing'' sense of spirituality and morality, our advancement when pondering life itself. We may be stupid beings, but at the same time, we can be rather intelligent and daring.
Those not willing to accept die out, to leave room for those willing to go on, which is a testament no one can deny.
(Christianity, for example, annihilated many beliefs and people, such as the Vikings. I dare anyone to suggest a plausible version of what kind of existence we would have today, if it were not for the steps of religion in our lives. Would I, for example, even have a meaning in mine own life, were I not able to dispute it? )
Such highly suggests the law of the fittest. It is lead by cruelty, and such can be found in so many ways!
It is almost baffling. Both literal and open to perception.

Only this to say that, the arrival to pollution may very well be an altar to the end.

Keep in mind my sermon about human nature, which, even with the differences, remains en route for the same concepts. Now, consider pollution and the threat to the planet on which we live. It is DIFFERENT. I know, up to now, this is what we have all been saying...

Over the centuries, man has always prophesied the end of time. This was, more often the not, suggested by spiritual prophecies. Evoked by premature reaction to fear.

People do the same today, (The Y2K Bug? O_o) but the difference is, of course, the matter which would bring about the end. A subject we can believe.

So even though the method is different, the matter is now, actually quite lucid.

Now, to dispel my contradiction;

It is rather arrogant to think that we may bring down this mighty planet; because nature works perfectly. It will wipe out its threat before we can wipe IT out. This may be suggested with the recent streak of abnormal storms, the appearance of twisters and tornadoes as well as floods, tsunamis or earthquakes which are not acting within the legitimate ways or laws of nature, That is, at least, as far as science has proven that it does indeed work a cycle, a cycle which functions to keep balance and order for life on Earth.

So even if we do not destroy the Earth, the neglect on our part towards it it will disrupt our harmony with it, and the ways in which it sustains us.

That is, if our own cruelty does not destroy us first. Which, I believe, would be as normal as disease spewed forth by garbage and toxic waste.

If we live to die, eventually, we must prepare for our own end. Whatever purpose we sustain this way will have met its conclusion. If there is even one. One thing I am sure of however, and mankind has evidently, due to his nature, known this forever. Nothing lasts forever.

Such as a seagull heads out to sea to die, so then we too, must prepare for the end.

We are not ''lazy''. It is our nature, and we only abide by it, no matter what our emotions and awareness tell us. For without the latter, I believe we cannot be humans, and cannot be used by our subconscious to play out our existences properly. Its functions, when thinking about the blatant meanings behind human reasoning, does not, I believe, make it sound such a foolish statement.

Excuses and self righteousness, for example, are very normal human behavior.

What I am trying to suggest is that all we say and do in regards to our knowledge and anxiety of our future is only that. In the end, it is inevitable.

We are right, but we do not know it.

Somewhere in this post, I am trying to say that we are set on a course, and that nowhere have we ever ''erred''.
If the French Revolution gave rise to the guillotine, that particular contraption has only served as inspiration for some machine that we have today which is ruining the natural resources we need to survive.
Metaphor, analogy, literal example, take it as you will, but its substance is not merely for flash value.
I see it as a way to underline the picture of our evolution, which is a painting depicting the conformity to destruction. The ''Downward Spiral'', or the inverted tree of life.
But I am getting messed up. I have to go to bed. I hear my pillows. They are calling me.

It seems so simple in my head when I think of such things. However, I have difficulty to put it into wording.
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Old 06-09-2007, 01:45 PM
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There will be no end, only another beginning. Humans as a whole intelligent as we may be are lazy. But only in a collective. All abstract concepts formulated by our imagination, such as courage, selflessness, laziness and cruelty all work thanks to civillisation. a man by himself cannot be brave or cruel as he has no one to be brave or cruel to. Now I propose that even if global warming does go out of control and the weather of the world turns nasty, that it will not be humans who die out, but civillisation. We will be left as isolated patches of humans on our angry little planet, forced back into communities the size of small cities at the largest. we will be cut off from each other, and this will actually solve most world problems. there will be no international trade cutting off the 3rd world from the rest of the world, no planes or cars clogging the sky, and the rising sea will destroy most ports. Apocalypse it may be, but it will allow the world to readjust itself in preperation for the second rise of the humans. Hopefully we will next time get it right.

and Terminal est? EVERYTHING goes in cycles. And a cycle by definiton does not end.
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Old 06-09-2007, 05:46 PM
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But it does indeed transcend in matter, and perhaps humans are but a part of it.

Circumstances will have it that eventually, this planet will no longer be suitable for us to live on. It may go. Much longer indeed, until the Sun dies, and takes everything with it.

But by then, there will no longer be human life upon the planet, due to circumstances. Pollution and disease, as well as famine brought forth by the rupture of our natural resources.
We may adapt to many things, yes, but there are limits. Even a wheel must quit to spin some time.

But I like your idea. A second wave of humans. Perhaps you are right indeed. Perhaps we are paving the way for these future people, by destroying ourselves.

Do you think that, perhaps, there were humans before us? On Earth?
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Old 06-09-2007, 06:48 PM
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No there are no fossils to show that it did happen. if you found a fossil that did, I would certainly be intreged, but until then I doubt it.

"Circumstances will have it that eventually, this planet will no longer be suitable for us to live on. It may go. Much longer indeed, until the Sun dies, and takes everything with it.

But by then, there will no longer be human life upon the planet, due to circumstances. Pollution and disease, as well as famine brought forth by the rupture of our natural resources."

Huh. I never would've thought you'd be one of those types. Ones who forget all about the moral "necessity is the mother of invention" I reckon we'll have left this planet LONG before our sun explodes. we have 6 BILLION years to crack lightspeed travel or failing that at least long distance space trael even if we don't get that, we'll be able to colonise Europa whn our sun goes to a red giant. We have plenty of options. Never underestimate us humans, we're an adaptive lot.
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Old 06-09-2007, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Son of Sephiroth
No there are no fossils to show that it did happen. if you found a fossil that did, I would certainly be intreged, but until then I doubt it.

"Circumstances will have it that eventually, this planet will no longer be suitable for us to live on. It may go. Much longer indeed, until the Sun dies, and takes everything with it.

But by then, there will no longer be human life upon the planet, due to circumstances. Pollution and disease, as well as famine brought forth by the rupture of our natural resources."

Huh. I never would've thought you'd be one of those types. Ones who forget all about the moral "necessity is the mother of invention" I reckon we'll have left this planet LONG before our sun explodes. we have 6 BILLION years to crack lightspeed travel or failing that at least long distance space trael even if we don't get that, we'll be able to colonise Europa whn our sun goes to a red giant. We have plenty of options. Never underestimate us humans, we're an adaptive lot.

you are looking over one thing:
If humans were here before they probably blew up the world (humans)
and from the rubble there formed a new earth so no fossils
a clean sleet for earth soiled by humans every time
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firesnake
you are looking over one thing:
If humans were here before they probably blew up the world (humans)
and from the rubble there formed a new earth so no fossils
a clean sleet for earth soiled by humans every time

we've proven the age of our sun and planets. We haven't blown up Earth before.
And we probably won't blow p our world ecause of our strongest instinct the intinct to live. it what allows our current system of M.A.D (mutually assured destruction) to work.
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Old 06-09-2007, 11:47 PM
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Huh. I never would've thought you'd be one of those types. Ones who forget all about the moral "necessity is the mother of invention" I reckon we'll have left this planet LONG before our sun explodes. we have 6 BILLION years to crack lightspeed travel or failing that at least long distance space trael even if we don't get that, we'll be able to colonise Europa whn our sun goes to a red giant. We have plenty of options. Never underestimate us humans, we're an adaptive lot.

...what?

I am a pessimist, a fatalist and I have hope for nothing.

But this is not for the sake of shock value, reputation and the like, but rather conclusions of my own reasoning, based on the motion which I can witness in the cycle of human life.

No, I will certainly not claim to know what makes the cogs of the universe turn; I can only go by my own perception, which I put into question, VERY often.

So while I consider your words with all sincerity, I cannot believe that such things as space colonization might ever happen.

Here are some points which hinder these possibilities, in my opinion.

-We have not managed to create spacecraft which is efficiently safe for space travel. Yet.

-In order to colonize another planet, we would need, in all rational though, the following.

*The creation of spacecraft which would allow for the carrying of material onto another planet, as well as ways to preserve, or even create, oxygen, which is our life source.

*We would need to establish studies, and then academic resources to train people into the professions it would take to accomplish space colonization, such as the building of facilities for living and preservation means.

These are things we do not have. at all. It will be much longer then another century before we acquire the necessary knowledge and methods to accomplish such.

And even then, we are far from exiting the Milky Way.

I do not say such is impossible. there are many factors I do not understand, so I cannot state as much.

However, our conduct and mentality here on Earth are much too set in their ways; the destruction of each other, and the acquiring of wealth and power. I spoke about the denial and resistance to evolutional conformity here, or in some other thread...I forget where. but I believe we are heading on this path.
Our actions are much too extravagant now, and this place will soon be left for the vultures and the ravens.

No, I am not Goth.

You are right however, things will go on...however, I highly doubt that humanity itself will have much to do with it.

Our nature to survive is very strong, yes, but i am convinced of an eventual ''Apocalypse'', because serious problems are rising much too fast in magnitude, and our technology and science are not advancing fast enough to save us.
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