Our life a story.

[exile9013]

This all has to do with fate, if you believe in it and what it is. Are our lives already planned out for us from the day we are born, or do we control what we are? I would like to know what people think on this.

I myself believe that what becomes of us is already set when we are born, but we have control on how we get there, we are not held back entirely by strings, but then again we still kind of are. this is my belief on this subject, what are yours?

[Terminal Est]

Everything is determined by the survival instinct, but is in no way related to matters, theories or beliefs of sentient forces such as ''gods'' or the human mysteries which have given rise to the definitions of such things as souls, fate or destiny.

We all have roles to play, and each and every single human aspect, from individual trait to the greater collective presentation serve as a cog which must turn in order to make our ''ecology'' (See the machinations of societies.) evolve and survive.

Therefore, nothing is abnormal, no matter how abstract or cruel it seems to be; everything has its key role.
For example, what we give perception to human emotion, actually has another purpose entirely, and the only reason we act upon feeling and principality is because in this way, (See the results and workings of ''The Reptilian Brain Theory''. ) we fill the purpose these elements truly wish to convey. If you are angry, then you will act upon it, and something will be derived from such. The outcome is therefore important; the way you feel was merely to set it in motion.
Your principles, in the greater scheme of things, what makes emotion flourish within you and your perception of such does not matter, if merely for a starting spark. Two sides, the outcome being the only truth, and what sparks the actions of has a purpose which you do not see, and attribute to something else.

All scales, as I have pointed out before, are of significant proportion in this scheme, no matter how small. It goes as far as to suggest that one's mentality is also a planting ground for a specific purpose, one which, in the end, deliver its purpose unto society, and unto our world.

I believe these to be nothing but natural reaction, and can highly be reflected to the animal kingdom. It may not seem as so, for I believe our primal behaviour manifests itself into the mind, and that our physical movement is the tool.

Who knows what a lion thinks? What makes it do the things that it does?

This is my belief, but I am hard pressed to answer what would do this exactly, and what the point may be; so I always answer, just to live. it makes sense to me, even when I consider that human logic certainly is not the only logic. Perhaps it has no purpose. The ''Perfect Anomaly'' is what I call it. We have been brainwashed by the need to justify every single little thing, and if you understand what I am posting, that is more then natural when considering what we truly are-but it certainly does not mean that everything has a right fairy tale outcome.

I believe that 'justification'' is an important key word.

So I do not believe that we have any choice in anything, we merely answer to ''programming''.
The fact that we are able to think that we may have a choice can never, in any case, be proven by philosophy and insight, therefore, I also believe that our consciousness of awareness merely exists so that our actions with this fact fill some other purpose, which is a lot more simple; living.

My theory is highly influenced by ''Maslow's Theory of Needs'', if any of you may be familiar with it?

Eeeh...I have now just woken, and must head to work in but a few minutes...not the best time for this sort of post. I do hope that it might have made -some- sense?

[Firesnake]

I believe nothing
I think that nothing is set as you live
the beginning nor end is planned
and ...... chocolate duck
sorry I forget what I wanted to say

[Zotar]

I once had a prophetic dream which gave me a glimps into the future. I was recovering from recently being knock out by a horse and sharing the feeling of deja vous i was havig at the time to my brother who was on a horse next to me. He was ticked, Thought i was faking. When it happened I wondered if anything I could have done would have changed what had happened. I didn't really think about the dream untill it happened and when i got the extreme feeling of Deja Vous. Everything i said felt like i said it before. Im still geeken out about it. Did i say those thinks because id said them before or because they seemed like the right thing to say? Did i myself fulfill the conditions of deja vous? It was wierd. Could I have said anything else? My answer is NO. Even with a phrophetic warning, my fate was already predetermined. Its almost as if I didn't have a choice. I was going to say or do the things would say or do and i would'nt be able to avoid it. But to me what happened seems like a time-space Paradox. To which the only solution is for things to happen exactly as forseen. That is my story and my thoughts. Ya dont beleive me? Google "Premonitios and prophetic dreams". It is a common phenominon. But mine was wierd.

Edit: Apperently It took me a long time to post this. By the Time i was done ,Termy had already left an even bigger post.

[VITG]

I really don't understand where any of you are coming from. You're acting as if your actions are pre-determined by a higher being, that is not so. Every action has cause and effect, you do not go eat the twinky because it was destined to happen, you go to eat the Twinky because past experiences have shaped you into a person who knows that the Twinky tastes good, and that you are presently hungry because you haven't eaten in a while. You were already going to do it, not by being forced, but out of your own free will. You do it because you want to, it happened because everything in your life previously had led to this moment and given you the choice, and you made it. All of our decisions, you could therefore say, are made before we are born. However, you should not think that from now on you're a slave to fate, you should instead try to understand WHY you made those choices.


Ugh, to summarise? Yes, at the end of the day, everything that happened was going to happen. Not because you had no choice, but because you had already MADE those choices.


I need to refine this. What I guess I'm trying to say is that...your free will isn't compromised because past events dictate your choices. Everything is determined by previous actions, where you sleep tonight is determined by where your parents decided to live, you choose your bed because prior knowledge indicates to you it is the most comfortable to sleep in, and you're used to sleeping there. You still have the freedom to sleep on the floor, and if you do, it'll be because a certain thing happened, or went through your mind that convinced you that sleeping on the floor was the way to go. You never chose to end up in this situation, things out of your control led to the moment where you decide 'you know what, that carpet looks kind of snug'

...I apologise. It's really hard to explain in words.

[Terminal Est]

I understand what you mean, but how do the choices we decide to make NOT fit in with an idea of predetermination? What other purpose might they serve?

If I like Twinkies, then of course I am going to eat them. But why do I enjoy Twinkies?

It is ridiculous indeed to involve pastries and philosophy together, but it may actually make some sense. Some people do not like them, and they may eat something else. The fact that we eat when we are hungry is an evident element, we have to survive somehow, which also leads me to the following;

Everything is determined by previous actions, where you sleep tonight is determined by where your parents decided to live, you choose your bed because prior knowledge indicates to you it is the most comfortable to sleep in, and you're used to sleeping there.

If all of our actions are predetermined by past experience, it also reflects the aspect of a set mentality which I have mentioned, and therefore, why are these mentalities shaped, anyway? To fill in another purpose.

If I am a Goth, for example, then I serve as checkpoint for society. When I walk down the street, other, more normal looking folk will warn their children about me; hence, and unfortunately, I am a physical warning beacon against child abuse and kidnappings, and even religious issues, if you will. This is stereotypical judgement of course, but this is what works the best in order to warn people, because most will always believe things which have a shock value, as aside from sitting and listening. It has its effects, and they work, weather they be true or not.
Hence all the slagging and bashing of folk who do not conform to the general aspects of society.
It does not occur for naught.
If I am homeless, parents will warn their parents about me. If you do not do your homework, you will end up like her! Hence the setting for conformity of principality and morality.

Therefore, if we look at it as such, I live only to warn the general mass, so that the world may live on, and not be ''too much'' like me. The choices I will make in the future will only to secure that I remain this way. If I change in my life, it is because I am no longer needed as such. This can be compared to the stereotypical recovering alcoholic who has found God, for example.

Did I turn into a Goth because I like Twinkies? I have no idea, and I know it sounds funny, but...
My father was a hippy and my mother was never there, then I lived in foster homes. This made me a person quick to rebel, (My ancestors were kicked out of France for starting too many revolutions and rebellions, and eventually founded Québec, with many other rogue families.) and maybe my father being a hippy has something to do with it. So the whole bed and bedroom aspect seems to secure a sort of person, or several persons, throughout generations needed to uphold a certain element which is vital for a society to work.
Therefore, it is my mere personal intake, but if all is determined by previous actions and though process as you suggest, the reason it does so is to make one reach whatever it is they must do.
Perhaps my idea of what a comfortable bedroom is like was influenced by my father's ideas of what is comfortable. Such little examples, especially the conclusion and influence of childhood, I believe, and agree with you, is quite significant in shaping what we become-or perhaps retaining what we must be.
They say that philosophy is born from psychology, and I believe that not many can argue that psychology has a huge impact on the entire aspect and procession on the matter of ''choice''.
Joe is an accounter. Bob is the plumber who fixes Joe's toilet, and Joe does Bob's taxes. Everything seems to work out in a perfect little cycle, weather the actions are spontaneous or arranged before we know it.

About choices. Perhaps we have them, yes-however, we always decide on one course of action because our personal logic tells us it is the best. Why would we chose on the worse?

And I must rectify myself as well, whatever puts all this into play, in my opinion, is not a ''higher'' force, because I believe that everything on Earth, including the planet itself, is like one giant organism, and that it all needs every one of its components to live, despite such things as the ''animal chain'', the rich and the poor or other issues which seem to hold a hierarchical nature. Lions could not live without the weaker prey on which they feed, therefore those are as important as well. Without the weak, the lions cannot eat, and die.

If I was not alive to serve as a beacon in order to reflect the need for social conformity, then people would have no reason to be afraid or concerned, therefore would not conform, and society would not work as it does without the significance that conformity does hold. If I did not have all the boring and mundane people I see everyday, I would have no reason to try, and or wish, to be different by dressing like a freak.
Everyone is the same in the end, and although our methods are different, everybody just wants to live. I believe that, at least, we know that much. Even without considering the evident malaise which comes when thinking about death and what lies beyond.
All those roles are fueled by experiences, trauma and reasoning respecting thereof, if you like. Even Twinkies.

There is no higher being, everything works upon itself. What is better on a Twinkie?
The cream inside or the dough around it? Either way, one without the other is no longer a Twinkie, and does not work.

A stupid example, but perhaps you might know what I mean by it.

As well, I do not believe it to be a higher force of sorts which rules us, because in the most general of definitions, this entails living in a certain way or filling certain objectives which eventually lead to one specific outcome; however, with what I believe, these outcomes happen every single day, they always happen all around us.
What I would like to know, in order to counter contradicting myself, is why, and how, in a larger scheme, this happens.

I had spoken of my ancestry earlier; well, before being France, the French were, initially, the Gauls.
As many other barbaric tribes, they fought against the Roman Empire to the very end. We still speak of Vercingétorix today, the ''Great Chieftain'' who fought until the very end. Did he have honour and wished for freedom? Perhaps. Or did he just wish to piss off the Romans as much as he could, especially when considering that he KNEW he and his people would be massacred? Most likely.
Either way, does it maybe make any sense, when regarding your thoughts about experiences, choice and predetermination? As an example, my entire lineage consists of the need to fight against conformity, and all the choices I make are based from influence and the like, as you say, and throughout all these centuries, I really have no choice but to do so. If I try and change myself, I will only follow my logic, which consists of rebelling.

A simpler example is this huge ass post.

And look at Québec today, the result of so many centuries of rebellion-they are all separatists, and wish to detach themselves from Canada to become their own country. So, all those poor farmers which did nothing for society but whine, complain and burn things down eventually ended up founding an entire nation.

And I admit it. I had thought about half of this way after this post was done.

[VITG]

You dwelt on the Twinkie analogy for too long haha.

I admit I was saying that all actions are, in essence, pre-determined. But the point I was trying to make to the others is that they're not slaves to fate because they have no power over their destiny, they're MASTERS of it, because they were always going to make the choice that they did in each situation.

[Terminal Est]

Ah! I see, but...what the hell is the difference?

Then, we would have no choice but to make specific choices. I understand though, even without the help of Twinkies...

But I would like to know, why do you think that is? Why are we masters of our destiny, and what is the purpose of having a destiny?

And about Zotar's post...prophecies and the elements of dreaming are perhaps another debate altogether, but I do understand what you mean, and what makes you believe that which you present.

Are we ever a bunch of fatalistic buggers or what...

Generally, I attribute this to...attribution. The brain has strange ways of working, and the every day normal action is easily deceived as being put into fortune telling and the like, when glimpses are presented in dreams, and so forth. Because of things as familiarity. It is easy to think that if you wish hard enough for a certain video game, you will obtain it; even if you must pay for it. The same can be said of if you had dreamed of owning it. I believe that the attribution concept of prophecy is actually being established by us AFTERWARDS. Which, I agree, sounds awfully as if we had no choice in anything, because even if on a subconscious level, we feel compelled to do so, as you explain in your dream.

I do not know much about dreams, so I will not speak of something I know absolutely nothing of, however this is how I always rationalize the events. I do believe that dreams might have some specific purpose, and although I do believe what you say, I do not think that dreams are the holders of truth in regards to what we as humans are, or do. This would impede our cyclic movement by ''knowing'', and everything we do, I believe I have explained it, serves a purpose to fuel the cycle forth. We do not need to ''know'' anything, only achieve what we are told to.
(My belief, I am not imposing this on anyone.)
There are many theories about dreams, such as a different state of communication between two close ones, or the ,''Regular Crisis Radar Theory'', (Also known as ''premonition'', weather in sleep or in the waking world, weather perceived as good or bad.) the interpretations and their meanings and the natural preconceptions that come with, or again, simply ''brain defragging'', if you will.

[Son of Sephiroth]

ah. Terminal est's posts. Guaranteed to make you confused and leave you questioning humanity itself.

personally I believe that every action has been dictated since well... forever. If you look at any observational experiment, eventually a mean "this will happen when..." will occur. The only problem are outside factors. now let's say you could see outside factors. ALL OF THEM. This includes everything that has happened up until this very point in time. You would be able to accuratly predict what would happen next. Nwo you could apply this to everything and be able towork out wha everyone would do next. From this you could work out the next se of outside factors and work out what everyone would do after than and so on until fate is completely revealed to you.

the only problem is you need to be omniscient to see fate completely, which means you have to be a god

[VITG]

Originally Posted by Terminal Est

But I would like to know, why do you think that is? Why are we masters of our destiny, and what is the purpose of having a destiny?

I apologise, I'm not saying...it's very hard. I'm trying to play down any notion of the word 'destiny'. I'm trying to say that, you always have your own choice. You always make the choices in your life. But the reason you make them is because previous things have shaped you and the present so that you make the decision you do. So at the end of time, someone could say 'well, even though VITG decided on that friday night that he was going to eat a Twinky out of spontaneity, he was always going to do it because his mother had bought twinkies, he enjoyed them, he had prior knowledge it was there, he was hungry at the time and he had previously been thinking about the twinkie'.