The Job System

[MidgarFanatic]

Curse you Final Fantasy III, V, X2, and XI!

What do you guys all think of the various versions of the job system that have occasionally snuck into the series? Personally I don't think it always works.

When I play a FF, I like to try and do everything I possibly can, and to maximize as much out of every single job for every single character as possible, and this can get quite cumbersome, especially when many of the jobs can be pretty much useless. Of course, this is not a problem for those who do not obsessively build on everything they can in these games. In fact, you are not really supposed to do this. It usually works best when you specialize characters in certain areas (such as making one character proficient in magic jobs, while others in offensive attacking style jobs); but I of course rarely do this; I like to have my precious characters do it all.

I much prefer having a wider selection of characters with their own unique job than trying to accomplish such a thing. I feel it helps add to the personality of the character. I think a character is much more defined when they alone are the group's Summoner, or Blue Mage, or Wizard. It feels quite watered down when they can all do these things with various degrees of success. But perhaps this is just me. The only FF that I think has really worked this well is the appropriate versions of FF Tactics.

Come on guys, what do you think, lets get some FF related discussion going here.

[JET73L]

Personally, I like the job systems. You can set it up so that individuals hyave their own jobs that they are trained specifically for (for instamnce, in FFIIIDS, Luneth as a red mage, Refia as a black mage or late3r summoner, Ingus as healing, Arc as physical offense), but you can also sety it up so that thje characters have backup jobs in case their usual job is useless abgainst a particular boss, or to use all the characters with the same super-effective jobagainst an opponent who would be weak against one and only one set of job skills. THe job system may not be perfect, but I think it's a great idea, especially wehen implemented properly, and is really better than any of the other skill systems in the serties, excpet maybe the FFX sphere grid.

[Miss Lockheart]

I have to say I'm pretty two-minded when it comes to job classes. I do enjoy being able to teach my characters every move, as is possible in games like VII, X and XII, but I don't mind it so much if I do have to cope with the inconvenience of job classes (Tactics is a big example), I guess it adds to the challenge. And as you say, it can add to their character if their roles are defined, I found that in Tactics and X, they seemed to really use the job classes as part of the character, almost of the story too.

IX had the best balance of both to me- each character had a job class, but sometimes there was room for more than one character to learn an ability, depending on which move it was. The only thing that annoyed me about IX was the presence of two summoners- sure they could each learn summons that the other couldn't, but it seemed a bit superfluous.

XII was strange because it started out with what seemed like a set of characters each with a job class, but as you got further into the game they did get really watered down, and became clones of one another (Vaan was my best white mage? *_*).

I've heard of people who've tried to make FFVII more interesting by giving the characters job classes of their own, since they all pretty much do whatever you tell them depending on which materia you give them. I might try this myself one day ^^

[MidgarFanatic]

Originally Posted by JET73L

...but you can also set it up so that the characters have backup jobs in case their usual job is useless against a particular boss.

I of course agree with this. I would never ordinarily level up a Scholar job class to much of anything, but it does come in handy for those pesky bosses who like to continuously switch up their weaknesses in midbattle. But this is about the only use for a job such as this (and the glasses look so dorky XD). But I just find so many of the jobs just as useless. Why go through all the trouble of leveling up a character as an Onion Knight, Dragoon, Viking, and Fighter, when just one of any of those would do the trick in almost any battle. Unless of course, your goal is to be able to master all the weapons and armour.

Originally Posted by Miss Lockheart

And as you say, it can add to their character if their roles are defined, I found that in Tactics and X, they seemed to really use the job classes as part of the character, almost of the story too.

Yes, and I think this is my main issue here, as I am much more of a story seeker in my game playing. It is as you say Miss Lockheart, I appreciate it much more when the character's roles in the battles (where we spend so much of our time) help us relate to what their personalities reflect in the plot. X is of course a very good example... so is another one of my favorites... VI. Any dramatic effect of Terra's unique role as an Esper, or Edgar's hand at mechanics, or even Locke's skills as a thief, would of been quite diluted if everyone had the same roles to play in the story. Heck, even Relm's skills as an artist have their part in the grand scheme of things. And I enjoyed using them and them alone for what skills they had to offer.

I do not think the job system is a terrible thing. It is just not really for me. I have known several people who have listed many of these titles in the series as amongst their favorites. So it is probably a matter of taste. Although I love all FF games, still something has to come at the bottom of the preference list, and so it is probably no surprise that most of these titles are amongst my least favorites in the series, well, them... and X. *giggles* hehe, I know you guys cringe when I say that.

[Terminal Est]

I quite enjoy the job systems from FFV and FFT. I am one of those people who try to accomplish everything in the game, so it is a real treat if you are up to it. I do not really believe that it waters down character personality, not if the character him, her or itself is well established in the plot and all. In fact sometimes it adds to the fun, seeing your weak princess finally waste legendary knights on her own with her bare hands. It allows the use of my imagination, which is why I started playing RPG's to begin with.
I do not think that we have much to worry about for character development in FFV for example, as only the core is presented, not so much to ruin.

I do see your point though, on the other hand, it is much faster to master everything if everyone is unique. In FFT I had fun doing it, although teaching everyone Bahamut in the end started taking too long. I admit I did not master all the classes in FFV, for that would take so long.
I say the story in FFV is one of the worse, but perhaps this is because of what you've mentioned; the class system watered down the whole experience by making the characters apparently shallow. I remember, I honestly could not have cared less about those legendary saviours from the past. XD

But on to the next point...

I see it in a different way, as FFV revolved around the classes, and it was extremely well made. There were so many combinations you could do, it was endless and therefore your characters were not always the same. Granted there are ups and downs such as some abilities being next to useless, or some which come too late and are no longer needed like the Chemistry class items, but in the end you could put together some extremely unique and useful combinations. I never played that game for the story. Usually that would turn me off in an RPG, but in this one the job system was the star, and since it was well made, deep and innovative, ExDeath may be forgiven for being an asshat. I appreciate that Square had tried new and different things back then, I believe they owe much of their success to being daring.
I agree that perhaps the class system does not always work in a traditional role playing game so much as in a tactical one, but in FFV it was good, could have been much worse like in many other RPG's attempting this feat.

And liking it or not, if we did not have games like FFIIIDS or V to introduce significant and trademark pedestals to the series which originate from the class systems of yore, the series would not be the same today.
I believe that this is important to remember. Not everyone likes the classes, but they are mothers who gave birth to what constructs many core concepts of Final Fantasy today.

In FF Tactics it was even more significant. This was a tactical RPG with long battles, having unique abilities to each would have made things extremely limited, and boring in the end. This was one of the better class systems, and it worked perfectly to enjoy every long battle. Many cups of coffee I have drunk while playing this to master it all and have my knights wielding two handed blades in each hand like a bunch of serial killers, ha ha. And I did not find that it ruined the story at all, as to this day it still enthralls me, even more then the entire gameplay.
The personalities were well established, if not by their actions rather then their presentation. The dialogue WAS sort of drone, but we cannot really blame the classes for this.

[MidgarFanatic]

Because FFV came out during the 16-bit era in which I initially began to become obsessed with these games XD, it is probably the one FF in which I developed the jobs the most. And since there were only four playable characters (or five depending on how you looked at it), it was possible to master them all; and I certainly had the time and motivation at the time to do this. But in all subsequent versions of the job system, I simply didn't have the drive. I havn't played V in a long time though, and I didn't think about it at the time, but perhaps it is as you say Terminal, as the story was rather weak the jobs truly were the real gas behind this game.

I did like the jobs in Tactics, probably for the same reasons as V. But I do not see Tactics as having any faults from the job system, as it was a unique game from the series, and made no asperations to be anything but.

Mastering everything in a video game such as a Final Fantasy can be a truly fun thing, if it is possible. And the job system truly adds to the challenge. I do not mind a challenge, but I do if it effects real life. In FFXI, it is highly improbable to accomplish such a feat. (I say of course improbable and not impossible, because I have truly met a few people in game who are attempting such a thing, although it will LITERALLY take a life time to accomplish) Nowadays, with so many other responsibilities, I just do not have the time to master every job for every character as I once did, which is a shame, because I do so love the feeling of accomplishment when something like this is done, even though it doesn't happen very often. But then again, I suppose you are not really supposed to try and pull this off, not unless you really want to. The game design is by no means required for you to do this; but I can't help it, I like to do it if I can. So I suppose this is one of the reasons it get's to me, and I suppose I shouldn't let it. XD So sue me.

[Terminal Est]

Ha ha but I feel the same way. If something in a game may be done, no matter how ridiculously long and whether or not you are meant to do it...after all, if it is possible, why not, right?...I feel compelled to do it. If I do not, somehow it feels like abandoning a kitten on the sidewalk.

This does not get to me though, not so much as if it is done wrong like in games where the class system is the priority but it schemes itself as having diarrhea or overshadows stories and characters, (As agreed on FFT that the whole game is near perfect.) as there are so many things in video games which may be mastered and are not job systems, but are just as time and effort consuming. Like getting the stupid Murasama to reach an attack power of 999 in SoTN, or teaching all the abilities to the secondary characters in Stella Deus, whom shall always remain weak, and unfit for battle. Yet, I still train them. It is like a few late jobs in FFV, by the time you have naught left to do but master what is left, the end result will serve nothing, aside from satisfaction. (Or getting all that EXP from the weapons in FFVII...I mean you have to be on level 99 to beat them. But wait, do they even give out EXP even, I forgot...)

But on an online game as FFXI, there are no real limits, right? Does that make it any different than a game which does?

But satisfaction, that in itself is good enough, unless of course, as you say it impedes one's social activities, like being late for school when trying to teach Cloud the Cherry Blossom he will never really need to use, argh. XD

Still, my kick ass Murasama or Bahamut summoning Ninja I was like WOOOOOOOOOOT.

Of course, I feel compelled to do this, but I have never nearly mastered all that which I'd set out to do...so many poor kittens I've left within the chill...