Enormous FF7 AC Theory Analysis (Major Spoilers)

[Hazuki Sensi]

Another interesting topic ruined by Kingdom Twilight, please ban this idiot cause hes clearly not interested in being a part of this, only out for cheap childish thrills which really shows how pathetic he really is.

On topic, a few very interesting points made there, do you happen to speak japanese cuase im pretty sure the lines you say appeared differently in the translation I had, guess we wont know for sure till the offical translation comes out. Anyway, I agree on most things, only the Jenova part I disagree on as I believe it was sephiroths spirit calling the shots mainly

[vivi_is_the_greatest]

I dont agree that Kadaj was disappointed about sephiroth leading the fight. He says to Rufus before he gets the head about never meeting sephiroth before, and he'd already been told what he needed for the reunion to bring sephiroth back, so he mustve known what was going to happen. Anyway, ive watched the film 3 times, i think watching it 16 times is kinda sad, and i hate to over analyse these things because in the end, it really doesnt make a lick of difference

[Morgana]

Borrowing from Thumper:


"The @$$hat!"

[Archtyrant]

haha nah i don't speak japanese, but i do speak mandarin, and i have the official japanese dvd. There are some chinese words in the subtitles which allow me to interpret some of their meaning. I got most of my translations from my dl-ed subbed version, but you do know that some of these fansubs have nonsense in them. I changed some of them where i felt it was more appropriate.

Yeah i'm also waiting for the official english version, to see if my translations were right. +).

I'm sorry but which part do you disagree on? Perhaps we can discuss it further

And one more thing, I think the children are there for a very important reason, and certainly not to summon bahamut. These children have Jenova cells in them. The syndromes of geostigma are caused by the body's reaction to Jenova cells. Like the Lifestream, the body fights to keep harmful substances (Jakuno bushzi) out. Eventually, the infected person dies and his spirit and body will return to the Lifestream. Geostigma will stay follow them and thus corrupt the Lifestream. What i'm saying is that while these children have Jenova cells in them, their bodies are also given more power than normal humans. You realise from the show that the children are able to hop around like fleas, and are strong enough the keep a large crowd away from the Shin-ra statue. What kadaj gave them to drink was to actually allow the children to manifest their powers, instead of having their own bodies fight them. Thus, the children could move like members of SOLDIER, who were also given Jenova cells. However, the drink also allows him to control their consciousness, and they were all connected the same way Sephiroth was connected to his clones.

As I've said, these children have Jenova cells. Whats the importance of that? The Reunion! The Reunion is the gathering of Jenova cells to regenerate the main body. After Jenova's head is found, and Sephiroth has returned and removed all his obstacles (Cloud), the first thing would be to gather all who possess Jenova's cells to gather and return the cells. The Children need to be in submission or they will just die like everyone else.

[vivi_is_the_greatest]

Originally Posted by Archtyrant

haha nah i don't speak japanese, but i do speak mandarin, and i have the official japanese dvd. There are some chinese words in the subtitles which allow me to interpret some of their meaning. I got most of my translations from my dl-ed subbed version, but you do know that some of these fansubs have nonsense in them. I changed some of them where i felt it was more appropriate.

Yeah i'm also waiting for the official english version, to see if my translations were right. +).

I'm sorry but which part do you disagree on? Perhaps we can discuss it further

And one more thing, I think the children are there for a very important reason, and certainly not to summon bahamut. These children have Jenova cells in them. The syndromes of geostigma are caused by the body's reaction to Jenova cells. Like the Lifestream, the body fights to keep harmful substances (Jakuno bushzi) out. Eventually, the infected person dies and his spirit and body will return to the Lifestream. Geostigma will stay follow them and thus corrupt the Lifestream. What i'm saying is that while these children have Jenova cells in them, their bodies are also given more power than normal humans. You realise from the show that the children are able to hop around like fleas, and are strong enough the keep a large crowd away from the Shin-ra statue. What kadaj gave them to drink was to actually allow the children to manifest their powers, instead of having their own bodies fight them. Thus, the children could move like members of SOLDIER, who were also given Jenova cells. However, the drink also allows him to control their consciousness, and they were all connected the same way Sephiroth was connected to his clones.

As I've said, these children have Jenova cells. Whats the importance of that? The Reunion! The Reunion is the gathering of Jenova cells to regenerate the main body. After Jenova's head is found, and Sephiroth has returned and removed all his obstacles (Cloud), the first thing would be to gather all who possess Jenova's cells to gather and return the cells. The Children need to be in submission or they will just die like everyone else.

You know it isnt real, right?

[Archtyrant]

haha i watch it as many times as i want. It's a great show +).

Yes he does know that sephiroth will return. However he is also frustrated to know this. I mean, who wouldn't want to outperform their own siblings before their mother? Remember when he talks to Rufus, he sort of reveals his feelings. He wants the reunion to occur so that he see his Mother again. I believe that when Rufus asks him what will happen when the reunion occurs and he replies that sephiroth will return, it is more to scare him than to actually want it to happen. All he knows is that when the reunion occurs, his Mother will be able to control the world like she wanted to. That is why when he could meet Jenova at the church, he doesn't immediately assimilate her. Instead, he fights with Cloud, just to show Jenova that he can be capable to controlling the world too.

Like you said, he doesn't know sephiroth personally, and can only feel him. Why would he want to give his position of authority to someone he barely knows? You must understand that even though he is only an entity, he does have human feelings. Jealousy and such are still a part of his emotions.

[Archtyrant]

What isn't true?

[vivi_is_the_greatest]

Originally Posted by Archtyrant

What isn't true?

The story

[Alex]

Excellent thread!

More of the same please, guys

[puddles123]

Thanks for replying and offering some interesting feedback on my theories/questions. I'm going to offer my opinion on the replies in order of their posting so I don't get confused over who offered what theory.

Son of Sephiroth - I would like to know why you still think the wolf in the movie is still Zack/Zack's spirit, because to me it just doesn't seem to match up.

Hazuki Sensi - I find it difficult to address your opinion entirely because my knowledge of what happened in the FF7 game is rather murky. I haven't played it for years, so many important things I probably do not remember. I remember that in FF7, yes, Jenova is defeated. But you defeat her 3 to 4 times throughout the game, so I don't believe that her actual entity is gone. After all, in the beginning of FF7 AC, we see the Turks descend into the Northern Crater to retrieve what they believe is Jenova's head. The Turks and Rufus talk about the box as containing a head many times throughout the movie. I would assume that they know (or at least Rufus) what they are talking about considering it is the Shinra organization that experimented on both Jenova and Sephiroth in the game. I might add that Rufus expresses along with Reno that Shinra's ultimate goal (for the moment) is the rebuild the planet. Rufus believes that Shinra must repay "this debt of ours", which makes sense considering how badly the planet is trashed from Shinra's decisions. I believe that Rufus is telling the truth here because of his rather selfless actions later in the movie where he tries to deny Kadaj his reunion by throwing the head over the side of the building and then shooting it. All in all this seems to prove to me that, although your theory about the cells being Sephiroth's makes sense to me, what lies in the box is indeed Jenova's head.

Hazuki Sensi - On the orphans, thanks for your explanation. I had not known that Shinra had experimented on the orphans. I also have not read "On the Way to a Smile", so I did not know about Denzel's past. I find it interesting that Kadaj initiates the control of the orphans where Aeris' power would be the strongest. You would think this might weaken her ability to affect the world and help Cloud later in the movie, but that is pure speculation and isn't true.

Kingdom Twilight - And I thought I had problems...

Archtyrant - The idea of Kadaj and his gang being clones of Sephiroth hadn't occured to me. This is another instance where my hazy memory of the FF7 game comes back to bite me. I would play it again but the damn sound won't work in game! Anyways, I don't entirely understand how the Sephiroths you fight at the end of the FF7 game are mutated forms of his actual body. How did these mutations occur? If he could mutate his body to make it more powerful, then why didn't he do so against Cloud in FF7 AC? I find it more feasible that Sephiroth is in fact physically dead and that the Sephiroths faced at the end of the game are powerful manifestations of his mental power. After all, as seen in the Nibelhiem incident in game and in the anime re-creation of it (The Last Order), Sephiroth is stabbed through the back with the buster sword and hurls himself into a pit of mako. You don't just walk away from that! I believe he knew that even with his body gone he could still heavily influence the course of events, perhaps with even greater power and mobility, and fulfill his objectives. In The Last Order, Sephiroth is initially enraged when he is backstabbed by a nobody (Cloud), but then becomes his normal cool, collected self again when he realizes that he is still the one in control. As for Kadaj and his gang being clones of Sephiroth, it makes a certain amount of sense except for what he says in the movie. You definitely have a different version of English subtitles than what I have, but in my movie (I think Hazuki has my version as well) when Kadaj is speaking to Rufus about his goals, Kadaj says that "It's sad but there's no helping it. We're spirits after all." Later on when he is about to face Cloud, Cloud says in reference to Kadaj's sadness of Sephiroth being chosen of Jenova over Kadaj,"The spirits don't know anything, huh?" So I don't think that Kadaj and his gang can be merely clones of Sephiroth when evidence in the movie points away from that. But in your movie version, right before they battle Kadaj says,"I was only a clone after all... just like the old you!" My version says,"I'm just a marionnette after all... just like the old you!" This not only makes sense with other statements in the movie, but Cloud was in fact Sephiroth's bitch for quite some time in the FF7 game, being forced to do things he did not want to do and having the translucent Cloud (the real him) only able to watch on helplessly. But that was the old Cloud. As for you're version, it just doesn't make sense because the old Cloud was a clone of Sephiroth, and Cloud still is a clone of Sephiroth, that doesn't change. But other than that, thanks for your explanation of the Jenova cells corrupting the Lifestream, I had not caught that. I had thought that the weaving black clouds that appear when Sephiroth and Cloud fight were just there for dramatic effect !

I'll try to address more replies later but it took me an hour just to read through the ones already made and type a reply! Thanks for all the feedback again, guys!